Episode Blog

Building The 21st Century Civil Rights Movement, Today With Bakari Sellers

The Civil Rights Movement is not the only Black movement, but it stands out with distinction for many reasons, including the way activism was more visible, thanks to advancements in television usage and access which made the realities of segregation and brutality towards Black lives hard to ignore. Movements have proven to be both inspiring and have yielded some gains, but debates around how effective they are can prove to be emotional and tense. As with the rise of modern Black movements since the fatal tragedy of the murder of Trayvon Martin, questions around the purpose of sustainability of racial justice movements continue to spark passion and differences in theory and goals within Black spaces.

 

Season 1 concludes with a spirited conversation with two-time NY Times best-selling author, civil rights activist, attorney, entrepreneur, legislator, and overall prolific voice of the culture Bakari Sellers exploring the following questions: Do we need a modern-day civil rights movement, and if so, how do we build it? Who leads the movement? And how do we tap into a sense of unified purpose to continue the progress of past movements?

Building The 21st Century Civil Rights Movement, Today With Bakari Sellers

Introduction

I’ll say this. Your frustration and your anger are very righteous. I always tell people that anger is not a sin at all. Your anger and your frustration. 

I’m okay with my anger. 

I’m just telling you, it’s necessary and it’s right. I get frustrated too, because we want progress to be quicker. We want people to acknowledge the pain. We want people to acknowledge the sacrifice that people have made so that we can have this progress and to watch us take 2 steps forward. Then make us take 1, 3, or 4 steps back. 

We are joined by a brother who doesn’t need an introduction. You all know this brother. you all see him on TV, on CNN, and MSNBC. Not Fox, though. You’re a former politician. You’re an author. 

Yes, ma’am. 

You’d be out in these streets telling the truth. 

That’s right. 

Bakari Sellers. Welcome. Thank you so much for coming. 

Thank you for having me.

We are in an interesting time.

First of all, we’re in DC. This is the week of CBC’s ALC, the big conference that they have every year. 

The black Super Bowl. 

 

Black Identity

Thank you for taking a moment to meet with us because a whole lot is going on. From Chains To Links, we like to start with 1 question to ground the conversation. I want to know, where are your people from? 

That’s a good question. That’s how we start that’s how we start most of our conversations in South Carolina and down south. I don’t know where you all are from, but I’m from the big city of Denmark, South Carolina. We had 3 stoplights and a blinking light. My Mom is from Funkytown. She’s from Orange Mound in Memphis, Tennessee. My Dad is from Denmark, South Carolina. 

That was where my roots come from, and we can trace them all the way back to West Africa, in the Sierra Leone portion of the continent. That’s where my people are from. Where are you all from? 

North Philadelphia.

New Jersey. 

You all are not from Philadelphia and New Jersey. My black people are from Philadelphia and New Jersey. Where are your grandparents from? 

No. My people from Nigeria. 

Okay. That’s fair.

Where are your grandparents from? 

South Carolina. 

Exactly. You all ain’t from Philadelphia. You all just want to act like you are all from a city. 

Yes, you’re right. I am a Jersey girl, but I’m from South Jersey. Across the river is Philly. My parents and all my people are from Philly. 

No. They’re not. Your people are from South Carolina. Stop trying to claim a big city. You’re from you’re from the dirt of South Carolina. 

I don’t know anything about South Carolina. This is what I’m told. 

How are we going to be From Chains To Links if you ain’t going back home? 

If you made this point yesterday where everybody giving Ancestry.com all their data now and never gave ancestry.com.

I am not doing that now. 

How did you know that your folks were going back to Sierra Leone? 

My dad was a director of African American Studies. You don’t need ancestry.com to figure out where you’re from.

Go into the archives. It takes a lot of work. Like that show, Find Your Roots on PBS. Henry Louis Gates Jr. I just got to get famous enough to be able to get on that show. I call him up and he’ll meet me there and we’ll walk through my ancestry. 

You might find out. 

That’s pretty dope. You can do African Ancestry.com.

Here’s a slightly nuanced question. When did you were black in America? 

September 18, 1984. 

What what what happened on September 18, 1984? 

I was born. You have some more difficult way. Are we done? Is this it? These are the questions? This is a good conversation. I think that’s geographically and culturally what’s different from being from the South. Black folk in other parts of the country have this realization or this “Ah-ha” moment that you’re Black but when you’re from the South, you’re born into it. For example, we don’t have to read history books to learn about the Civil Rights Movement. 

All we do is go to the barbershops or go to our churches, and you have individuals who smelled gunsmoke, who laid on jailhouse floors, and everybody has a community where we go get our haircut, There’s always an old guy that can tell you about the time that King came to town. While we talk about LeBron versus, Michael, they talk about King versus Malcolm. These are real discussions we have in our community of people who fought for the movement because the injustices were so rich throughout the South. It’s not a realization or an “Ah-ha” moment. It’s you’re born into it.

 

Modern-Day Civil Rights

That flows into the conversation that we want to have in this episode about the modern-day civil rights movement.

That’s so wild. I think you stole our cards but as you’re talking about this deep connection with movements, in many ways, it’s annoying, to hear people say post George Floyd. Annoying because for the large majority of America, almost like the first awakening, if you will, that many have had. For many that probably may have been the case but obviously, movements are not a new phenomenon when you’re black in America. 

I just wanted to say, that you’ve already touched on it, but when you think about the significance of movements over time. Why is it that they matter and that may seem like a very obvious question? I have a slightly different way of looking at it, “Why do we need so many?” It almost feels like there are so many movements. You heard, “We.”  

The, “We” is important to framing the question because are you talking about the plight of African Americans in this country? Are you talking about the plight of women in this country? They’re integrated in certain aspects, but I dare not say that my struggles are the same as yours. I would argue that your struggles as a black woman in this country are far greater than mine. 

That’s the end of our program, and we thank you for being here. This is the point of this whole thing. Sorry, this has never happened. 

First of all, after I have this argument back and forth. A lot with my editor. I just finished my 3rd book. 

Congrats. 

Thank you. After you go through an adir or a very dark point, King said it best. He said, “Only when it’s darkest can you see the stars.” For a lot of people, George Floyd was emblematic of so much because of the period that we were in. I was with, Polonius yesterday. George’s brother. We flew in from Houston together to DC. 

It’s a unique conversation to have because I don’t think people correctly analyze George Floyd.  Why was George Floyd or why was that such a powerful moment in our history? I would argue that there were a few things. 1) George Floyd would not have been as powerful if we were not in a pandemic. The fact we were in a pandemic, everybody was home, and they had to repeatedly watch that video over and over again, made people want to react and feel some type of way. 

2) It took an entire globe coming outside to have any accountability for Black folk. There’s a difference between justice and accountability. Justice is George Floyd being at Thanksgiving this year. Accountability is his officers going to prison. You have to be clear about the language but there is a natural line between George Floyd, Emmett Till, and Medgar Evers. There’s a natural progression. Your question is cool, but I don’t think your question is the right one.

Will somebody change this question on the card, Bakari? 

I’m about to give you the right question to ask. I got you but the question has to be, “Why does progress in this country cost black people so much?” I would argue every ounce of progress we’ve ever had in this country is because of black blood that flowed through the street. People watching, they’ll say, “Give me an example.” I say, “You wouldn’t have the Voting Rights Act and Civil Rights Act if you didn’t have the Edmund Pettus Bridge.” 

The Edmund Pettus Bridge was a classic example because it was the first time that white people in America were able to see brutality against Black folk because it aired on nightly news. You wouldn’t have the Fair Housing Act of 1968 but for the assassination of King. We wouldn’t even be talking about Criminal Justice Reform but for George Floyd. I think the question instead of asking about movements, one of the challenges of our generation is lowering the price, for change in this country because right now, it’s very costly for us. 

Lowering the price for black people. Agreed, and I’ll take it one step further. The Immigration Act which was part of the Civil Rights Legislation of the 1960s, is essentially what has brownified our country. Before that, there were quotas on anybody coming into this country outside of Western Europe. A 100%. How do we get there to a place where the evolution of our democracy does not require the blood of black people for the future? 

I don’t know the answer to that.

We got to do it because that’s what we’re trying to figure out. 

I don’t know the answer to that question. 

Is it possible? 

Yes, that’s called, “Hope.” I have children, they’ll be five in January. You want them to live in a country where they don’t have to go through despair and I don’t know if that’s possible, but that’s why you have hope. 

Is part of it helping to shift the narrative because of what you just said, I don’t think most White people and others appreciate the role that Black people have played in the advancing democracy in this country.

That’s a harsh generalization. I don’t think White people need an advocate in this conversation but for example, I was giving a speech and my brain just took me there. I wasn’t intentionally going there, but I ended up talking about coalition building in the middle of my stream of consciousness as I was speaking and, was talking about Goodman, Schwerner, and Chaney. We have to acknowledge.

One of the things that we have to realize, I guess, is we’re talking through the answers to that question that you asked of how do we get there? It takes coalition building. We can’t do this by ourselves. I’ll also tell people that racism in this country, is not necessarily what we’re talking about, but racism in this country is not on us to fix. 

But it always is on us to fix. 

No. It’s not. I have a lot of burdens to bear. I fuck up a lot and I have a lot to fix but that ain’t one of the things I have to fix. 

We say that in a moment where at Black Innovation Alliance, we just launched this campaign called the Clapback, which is responding in response to all of this misinformation that is being hurled out into the public space. Who is it falling to to make this conversation right? Black people. While I would aspire to a world where that didn’t fall to us to fix, that’s not the current reality.

Yes. I would love to get to a place where black people did not carry the burden of it, but my whole job is dedicated to carrying it. If it’s the whole job is dedicated to carrying the burden of it. I agree that white people have, an untold story as their role in advancing the cause for justice but it’s like those narratives aren’t making it into the public space either.

Correct, nobody talks about Miami University of Ohio and their role in the civil rights movement and how they trained civil rights workers before they went down to Freedom Summer. Right.

Or the fact that White people created the NAACP and they fund the NAACP and the United Negro College We don’t have seen it used. 

The totality of the story has to be told, I think, is the message that we’re sharing in this episode. 

I agree with that. Let’s tell.  

I don’t think that, when you were talking about cheapening, I agree with both of you. I don’t think that it is for us to fix racism. In the spirit of this conversation around movements, I do think there has been a cheapening thought as to how we have been, both forced to be positioned, but also at times been very effective at responding to racism. 

To Kelly’s point, it has for some people turned into their life’s work. I don’t think we’ve valued it. it’s almost like I’m going on a little tangent. We are so used to seeing 5-year-old kids that can sound like Whitney Houston. Our response to it is, that Jaquinta does that all the time without actually being, wow, that is a gift. That’s a craft. That’s that’s an art. 

I think that with movements, what unfortunately happens, and maybe I’m a little sensitive as somebody both behind the scenes and on the ground, is that there is this expectation.  We can talk about the expectation of how we respond to movements, but there is this expectation that we’re going to be at the front line of being on the ground. What I think it’s minimized is the strategy behind movements and what it takes to build a movement.

Not something that we wanted to do, but something that we had to do. I don’t think that that’s just external. I think internal, whether it’s the combination of us grieving collectively and not having the bandwidth to honor each other’s genius or maybe at times we just take it for granted that we’re just good at responding to racism. 

Whichever one it is or a combination of the 2, I do think that there is something about, whether it’s our responsibility or not, there is something about the excellence by which we, unfortunately, in a capitalist society, have been able to move people outside of our community to do something. That’s different than having a cause or a nonprofit.

I hear you. I don’t disagree with anything either one of you. I would just ask you to consider when we talk about racism, I think a lot of the things that we do around racism. When I say that it’s not our burden to bear, I stand on that. I think we do a lot of things to help alleviate the symptoms thereof. I think that is the work that we’re talking about. The symptoms of racism, the tentacles of racism, and how it affects our daily lives. 

The structures that, it finds itself meandering through but if you’re going to take out the cancer, what I’m telling you about that cancer is that it’s not something that we can do because we don’t cause that. That’s my only point. When we’re talking about taking a scalpel to that cancer, that is racism, that’s not something that we can do because we’re not the cause thereof. 

Then what is our role? I’m asking this in a way that you said you are 4 and a half years old. Who are you trusting then to take out that cancer? Who is equipped to do that work so that their future looks different? I would argue that cancerous spaces are probably likely not well enough to do that on their own.  

Then, we have each other. I can’t imagine and I don’t know anyone throughout our history per se who was dedicated to alleviating. King talked about changing hearts and minds, et cetera. Let me give you a very clear example. People want the political spectrum and dialogue to change in this country. I say that if White male evangelicals don’t stand up, then it never will change. 

If they don’t push back against the racism and the bigotry because they are, a very large block of voters and powerful influential people in this country where that type of hate and bigotry is coddled and they cater towards that. If we want racism to be alleviated in this country and we want to have a free country and systems that are free from that, it’s very difficult for me to say that the three of us can go out and make that change. 

I don’t think that we should have heart attacks and get our sugar high and everything else while trying to conquer that task that is not ours. There are a lot of things that we can do in terms of the systemic troubles and a lot of the systemic ills that we have and chipping away at it. To get to the root of it, people in this country are going to have to begin to give individuals who look like the three of us the benefit of their humanity. Until that happens, we won’t change.

 

The Need For Modern Civil Rights Movement

Let me ask you this. Do we need a modern-day civil rights movement? 

We’re in one. The civil rights movement never ended. I don’t know why people think it ended. The iterations look different. Look at activism in sports, for example. You had the picture. It was Jim Brown. It was Muhammad Ali. It was, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, and I can’t remember the 4th person that was sitting there. You go back to an era where you had John Carlos, and Tommie Smith, in 1968. You had Muhammad Ali, Jim Brown, and Kareem. You had all of these individuals who were on the front lines of that struggle. 

Then you went through this era of Jordan Charles Barkley and Magic Johnson. People like to say that they didn’t care about the movement and those types of things. That’s not correct. The movement just changed the way it looked because, without them, you wouldn’t be able to have LeBron James and Steph Curry and all these other people taking on Wall Street and growing their economic portfolio. Those individuals allowed for that to happen. The movement just looks different today, but it’s never ended. It evolves and it adapts. 

When you say that, that makes me think of an evolution of the Black experience, but I don’t necessarily know how it characterizes the evolution of the movement. Maybe the two are intertwined in ways that you just can’t untangle.

Shout out to some of my friends at this place called Movement, NetLab. I think it’s interesting as you were talking, there is this theory in the sense that movements don’t die, but they can be frazzled. It’s almost like there’s the communal movement, but then there’s the individual movement. The sense is that when people go back to their homes from the streets, they don’t necessarily fully put down the movement. 

They’re carrying parts of that movement wherever they’re at but then there is this triggering effect, if you will, that gets everyone back into formation. I’m wondering if that set a point again of cheapening our credit. I don’t know then if we need to infuse a different narrative around the different events and or different circumstances that have shifted. 

I love looking at sports movements. I would say that there was a shift in Reaganism, capitalism, and corporatism if you will, that changed how to access and even within black communities are focused on black economics, and ownership, and all of those things were at the forefront. I don’t know if we’ve necessarily owned those things as part of the movement in the ways that they should. I think that’s where some friction, if we’re going to be honest. For those who believe in black capitalism “Versus” movement in ways that maybe it’s a little bit more gray. 

I think that’s a silly thing, though. 

Is it silly? People are silly?

I think the verses are silly. I don’t understand why we have the dichotomy. 

I understand it. 

Explain it to me then. Like I’m 5 because I probably will agree with you but just the words, I don’t follow. 

I think there is the thought that subscribing to capitalism without understanding that it is already inherently even though we don’t call it racialized capitalism, that racialized capitalism implies a certain participation in the current system without taking on the current system. Calling out the ways that it is not only built to create divides between have and have-nots but it is also designed to punish black people and therefore other communities of color, poor communities. Therefore, you’re not necessarily improving a system that is built on our backs. 

What’s the alternative? Why would you argue that these individuals are not improving or at least their intent is to improve? 

It’s not a, “You” thing, but I do think that there are individuals that feel like there is a need to tackle it. We can imagine something differently. I think we don’t necessarily have the space for that nuance and that disagreement to happen. The reason why we’re bringing it here is because the space that Kelly and I are in this broad space of Black innovation has a lot of different theories as to how we move forward as a movement while also being innovators, creative technologists, and entrepreneurs. 

It’s not something that I think people have a clean line between capitalism and movement. I don’t think it is mean-spirited like, you’re not down enough. I don’t think that’s what it is but I do think that people are trying to figure out a different ethical model for how we can participate, especially since a lot of the ways that help us to accelerate. 

Are these accelerators and are these programs that, sure, you may get one or two Bob Johnson on the other side of it, but it does not move the black GDP within our community? Some people have a mutual interest in both thriving as an entrepreneurs, but also seeing shifts within their community.

I would argue that there are systems that were already pre-designed for that not to happen and that we shouldn’t be afraid of the conversation but I do think that there is a different lane where people do want to participate fully in what capitalism has to offer. God bless them. You should know that I do not consider myself a capitalist. I do consider myself a cozy socialist. 

That’s also to say that I am conflicted with the ways that, I did not create this system. I am in it. I need to make money. I need to live but I do think that there is a conversation that I think needs to be had in the innovation space as it relates to wealth creation and reducing the wealth gap. 

Wealth creation outside of capitalism. That’s interesting. I would love to explore it too. I would love to see the possibilities of that. I’m not sure they exist but I would love to see the possibilities of it. The versus is what bothers me because a lot of times we end up in these arguments. Not even arguments. This is a very healthy intellectual discussion.

I’m enriching myself listening to you and I appreciate that but I deal with this a lot in the criminal justice system because a lot of people push back on Black solicitors and Black prosecutors. They ask, “How dare you?” “Why would you?” This is decently asinine. We all understand that the criminal justice system works. Just like it’s supposed to. 

It’s not broken. It’s working just the right way but you have those individuals who try to go into that system to reform it. We should not be building a wall of us versus them or giving them pure hell simply because they’re in that system. I use that as an example. I’m very interested in the theory of this Black capitalism versus movement because I would argue there’s not a versus. Even more importantly, for example, when you had SNCC. 

My dad was one of the founding members of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, I was writing about a picture. He was protesting in the South African Embassy in New York. He got arrested with a young man named Willie Ricks. He got arrested with James Forman and John Lewis. The people who were there to bail him out weren’t activists. They weren’t a part of the movement. They just happened to be named Harry Belafonte and Sidney Poitier. They were Black capitalists. 

They just happened to be actors, but they were Black capitalists. I don’t understand the segregation thereof. When people got arrested down for protesting out in Sterling, or when people got arrested in Ferguson, who bonded them out? B and J. Nobody would argue that they’re not Black capitalists, but they play a role in transforming the movement. Now they may not be out there in the front lines, and I’m just saying that I think we find more value in the integration or attempting to integrate them than than building a versus. 

That makes sense. The struggle that a lot of people feel is that capitalism has been built on the backs of black people. 

Undoubtedly. 

I understand and appreciate it. We have to operate in that same system. That’s the tension. For me, what I’m most interested in is how we use the levers of capitalism to advance the movement because if we think about the Civil Rights Movement and the Montgomery bus boycott. The point was to break the back of the bus company so that they would have to change the rules. That is the lever that I don’t think we use enough. That’s what I’m curious about.  

We’ve done that throughout history. Whether or not it was Briggs v Elliott, which was the first case in the landmark collection of cases known as Brown versus Board of Education. They wanted to break the public education system. Which was miseducating and treating our kids separate but equal. Sarah Mae Fleming, Fleming versus SCE&G. 

It was a case that was filed before Rosa Parks. That case was about SCE&G a utility company, and throughout the South, the buses were used to be owned by utility companies. I was to break the back of SCE&G which happened to be successful. You’re you’re correct. The only way this works is if we take out the versus. 

The dualism of it is what you’re not buying. 

I’m not. Until we have an, “Us.”  

That’s a whole other podcast because I don’t know what’s the, “Us.” 

Now, everybody ain’t going to be on the bus. 

You’re talking about a conspiracy in a good way. Regardless of the position that they’re in, they are very clear on the same goal, but they’re using a basis for it. That’s what you’re speaking to. The frustration that I have as you’re mentioning these cases. I used to practice as a civil human rights attorney, I’m sitting here and listening to these cases. 

Yes, I also was on Edmund Pettus Bridge with John Lewis last March 2020 before he passed away, recognizing that 4 years prior, I was working in the judiciary when Shelby v Holder had happened, and it was reversed. To me, I think there is a bit of a frustration. It is that question of, even if we are participating in this space of capitalism, we are seeing this very harshly. I think it’s a harsh cycle, especially when you see somebody who should have died, with the Voting Rights Act intact. In many ways, this concept is our work in vain. 

I’m going to say this, your frustration and your anger are very right. I always tell people anger is not a sin at all. Your anger and your frustration. 

I’m okay with my anger. 

I’m just telling you, it’s necessary and it’s right. I get frustrated too because we want progress to be quicker. We want people to acknowledge the pain. We want people to acknowledge the sacrifice that people have made so that we could have this progress, and to watch us take two steps forward. Then making us take 1, 3, or 4 steps back is disheartening at best but we still have to do that work, and we still have to remain encouraged. Even during those moments of frustration and anger, which I experience a lot of, I think it’s okay to take a break to see your therapist and have a drink with friends. 

Shout out to Ashley. 

Shout out to Doctor Garcia. Go to Cabo on a girl’s trip. What’s the new place in Mexico where everybody is going for Instagram? Tulum? Then get back to it.

Black folks have this tendency of saying, “We are not a monolith.” There are some ways that I wish black people were a little more monolithic because of all of this empathy. 

I would argue that the harshest trick that this country ever pulled on Black folk was replacing Thurgood  Marshall. 

That was a crime. 

Call it what you want but have you ever seen a 180 in American politics?

It was an assault on all things good. 

It was an assault on democracy to go from somebody as pure and as noble as Thurgood Marshall. 

The worst form of affirmative action. The worst form. 

I think it’s an extension of white supremacy.

Undoubtedly or indubitably. 

You knew you couldn’t be the first in that regard, but he’s the first in a lot of other regards. What is the next right move for those of us who are invited? 

Wait a minute. I know we’re wrapping up and he said a lot about Black capitalism. There is something not quite curling. The Jheri Curl is not fully curling for me and his black capitalism space that you’re speaking of. I’m seeing way more exclusionary. I’m even seeing way more using the movement to advance certain platforms, but not necessarily building within the community. I’m talking about intra-community. 

As Kelly is asking this question, I would love for a part A and part B around what is the next space in the Black movement. I want to be very explicit about this, even as you were talking about Ferguson. My spine went up a little bit because what doesn’t get enough credit is that it was poor black and brown kids marching for 300 days plus without the camera being there for people to even care to be on the other side of bail funds that maybe don’t get enough press.

However, it was started by poor people who put their money together in a space where a debtor’s court is the number one crime towards our people. I feel like that doesn’t get enough shine as the Sydney Poitiers or the Harry Belafonte. That’s the problem I have with capitalism in this space is that it is seen as the savior within the community as opposed to the community or the people that have the least leading the movement.

What if I told you I don’t disagree with anything that you said? 

Fine, but then what do we need to be doing more of?

To both and. I think we I think there’s a couple of things about that. 1) We have to do a better job as content creators of sharing our stories. We have to control our narrative. That’s first and foremost and I think we have to do a better job of lifting up those individuals with our platforms and sharing those stories and spotlighting those individuals. I’m saying that both are necessary. 

We have to go into communities. SNCC used to go into communities. They didn’t try to change from the top down. They went into communities. They took the Quaker philosophy into Philadelphia, Mississippi registered those people, and empowered those people on a local level. That is necessary. Those stories aren’t told as well. We also need places like the Black Economic Alliance and all of those individuals who work in Wall Street, who are climbing. 

I think the answer is you have to lift as you climb. That’s our responsibility. Appreciation is too strong because I don’t want you to think I’m responding to you, but I don’t appreciate, per se, exclusionary tactics and movements because that destroys us and people want that to happen. You got some people out here who ain’t for us. You have some Black capitalists who only care about themselves, who want two Teslas, and who live in a gated community.

I don’t fault them for that. 

That’s your ministry. You do you. Everybody not going to be down with us but the only point that I’m saying is, I think it’s a both end. We’re stronger by sharing all of those stories.  

Word up. I agree with you and I would love for more people who are in those spaces to hear your words because I do think the lift as your climb looks way more like charity within our community than rolling up sleeves and saying, “I’m spending 5 years on Wall Street. This is my intention. This is my goal. This is how I support the movement.” It looks way more like, “Let me contribute to the Jack and Jill.” “Let me do this for the whatever.” 

The part of it is that we have to teach them. Part of it is the work that you were doing, the work you were talking about in Ferguson, the community building. A lot of these people don’t know how to do that. When they make it to the c suites, all they know is, “Let me give back to my HBCU.” “Let me give here.” 

A part of it is that we exclude them from these conversations and some of them don’t want to be a part of these conversations. For those who want to be a part of these conversations, we have to welcome them and teach them how to do that Movement work. That’s why Movement versus Black Capitalism, I don’t rock with the versus, I like the, “And.”

Aggregate them because I cross the paths of people all the time who are saying, “Tell me what I need to do.” They want to be aggregated so that they can activate. We can catalyze that money. Anything else in your soapbox about brother these days? 

I just appreciate you too. Anytime my good friend Brian asked me to come I looked it up and I saw 2 dope Black women doing something. If I can be a part of it, I want to help and lift as I climb. 

I appreciate it. Thank you, buddy.

Any election predictions? 

No. I stopped. I got out of the business of predicting elections when I was up here talking about President Hillary Clinton.  

Touche. 

Thank you. 

Thank you.

 

Closing 

Thanks, everybody for joining us for another exciting episode of From Chains To Links. I appreciate Bakari for stopping through. You can find him at BakariSellers.com, and check us out again for the next episode. See you then.        

 

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